craft malting and craft brewing are disruptive industries

See also the Copyright, Privacy, and Terms & Conditions. I think it's a combination of their ability to be nimble and rapidly find new business strategies and opportunities. It is forcing some tough decisions to be made. Oskar Blues beers are available nationwide in the U.S. and in more than 15 countries. WebRoot Shoot Malting | 82 followers on LinkedIn. 0000048668 00000 n Hoopers version featured malt that the Bay Areas Admiral Maltings made from California-grown barley, the grains contributing characteristics of vanilla and honeysuckle. Our Colorado craft brewers are a large part of the local community, and we found it fitting to involve malthouses from across the country in celebrating another year of craft malt evolution, says Todd Olander of Root Shoot Malting. In this regard, this publication is unique among the scholarly agricultural economics journals. The most important key figures provide you with a compact summary of the topic of "Craft Beer Industry in the U.S." and take you straight to the corresponding statistics. That will force brewers to think hard about any new products they release into the markets; you are going to have to get creative to continue growth. Photo: Courtesy Great Western Malting. Hope Grows at Wheatland Spring Farm + Brewery Consider the New England IPA. proteomics, Kettle sour beers is it's own style at beer competitions, It is possible to have bitterness in beer without boiling, Low or no alcohol beers could be used as energy drinks because, Low calories Lastly, do some research to craft and micro-maltsters in your area. She worked at Massachusetts breweries, including Boston Beer Works and Berkshire Brewing, for around a decade before pausing to raise her twin boys. The renamed Ladish-Stoppenbach Company (later Ladish Malting Company) expanded their operations in the Milwaukee area through the early twentieth century, building a large industrial malting complex near Froedtert in West Milwaukee. Imbibe is liquid culture. Milwaukee Malt Industry Veterans Launch Proximity Malt Startup Targeting Craft Brewers, New Malt Shop on Milwaukees South Side Serves Home Brewers. WebRoot Shoot Malting | 82 followers on LinkedIn. It malted easier, with less variability, Olander says of the variety, its honeyed profile winning customers. 0000315913 00000 n Ladishs experience with malting machinery also prompted his successful venture into machinery production, establishing an enterprise later named the Ladish Drop Forge Company in 1905. Due to varying update cycles, statistics can display more up-to-date So, theyre having to decide whether it's now the right time to take their price up in conjunction with their distributor and any other kind of market analyses they're doing. Its almost like going into your favorite general store and seeing whats new.. It currently publishes more than 6,000 new publications a year, has offices in around fifty countries, and employs more than 5,500 people worldwide. Cost decreases with volume, from 50-pound sacks to silos brimming with base malt that originated on farms somewhere. If breweries express interest and hesitancy, hell propose a hot-steep demo. The Colorado Farm Brewery, in Alamosa, serves beer made with malt from its associated Colorado Malting Company. It will enable them to grow across traditional boundaries, empowering them to sell high value malt, rather than low value barley, directly to end users in the brewing, distilling and food sectors. WebCraft malting and craft brewing are disruptive industries True You can add bitterness to beer by adding plants other than hops True High alcohol beers have no future True Alcohol free beers have no future False Green malt is a trend because it will save on Reduce water needed in mashing Maintain enzyme levels Costs in kilning Reduce energy costs We are happy to help. The level of cookies and processing of personal information we apply is up to you. By late 2018, they opened a Catskill taproom to serve malts spun into great lagers, pale ales, and more. 0000008124 00000 n Stipp: There are categories within craft that are growing faster than IPA's where you can see craft beer stepping into, like lagers. Malting technology improved to produce a more consistent product in larger quantities, leading the citys brewers to expand steadily their malting facilities. WebCraft brewing sales comprised 1.2% of the beer market in 1994. Some industry observers expect craft brewers to hold 7% to 10% of The total num-ber of domestic specialty brewing companies exhibited a growth rate of 28.2% in 1996 (Edgar). Author of The Great Northeast Brewery Tour, a contributor to The Oxford Companion to Beer, and former editor of BeerAdvocate, Ben Keene has judged beer competitions across the US and has spoken at industry conferences and conventions. Gone are the heady days of double-digit growth and the seemingly never-ending introductions of new brands and brewers common for much of this century. [5] Herman Ladish, a manager at the American Malting Company (a satellite of a New Jersey firm of the same name) in Walkers Point, formed another key Milwaukee malting firm, purchasing a controlling stake in the Lytle-Stoppenbach Malting Company of Jefferson Junction, Wisconsin. Which of these ingredients is most likely to be accepted by brewers with genetic modifications? There are a lot of unextractable flavors when you chew on grain, says Bob Hansen, the manager of technical services for Wisconsins Briess Malt & Ingredients. Polar vortexes, heat domes, and cataclysmic deluges can arrive with a random climatic dice roll. WebThe Big Brewery Map of Southern California. Heres a guide to more than 150 places to go tasting in Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside and San Bernardino counties with our writers picks leading you to some of the best brews. The taproom pours Mecca Grade. 0000003131 00000 n It starts by steeping cereal grains, commonly barley or wheat, to spur germination and the production of enzymes that break starches into fermentable sugars. As Milwaukee became a national leader in brewing, it also grew into a significant national leader in malt production, becoming the largest national supplier of malt by the mid-1950s. 0000315847 00000 n The Brewers Association expects that the craft beer industry in the US will reach a 20% market share in 2020 in terms of production volumes. After a major fire destroyed much of the brewery in 1879, for instance, the Pabst Brewing Company installed a large mechanized malt house in its new industrial complex. Craft malting, also known as artisanal malting or micro-malting, is the agricultural practice of producing malted barley in small quantities for brewing craft beers. The sourcing of single variety barleys that are craft-malted with an origin, as well as hops and water sourcing defines the beer styles in what they call Origin Beer. It was a point of differentiation that we believe is creating a novel experience for the drinker. The Olanders grew barley for Coors from the early 1970s until around a decade ago, at which point the farm left barley production. This enzyme can be added to convert extra starch into sugar. The company opened in 2011 in Asheville, North Carolina, with a focus solely on Southern-grown grains, including heirloom Wrens Abruzzi rye. What about using New England grain and hops to make a New England IPA?, She formulated recipes with grains from Valley Malt, as well as Maine Malt House and Blue Ox Malthouse, also in Maine, and Peterson Quality Malt in Vermont. If breweries succeed, were going to succeed, Olander says. Hope Grows at Wheatland Spring Farm + Brewery Barley is a living thing, and it reminded us that were breathing in the same stuff, says Klann, who called the malt Lionshead after the conflagration. The hope is that brewers notice nuancesis that honeysuckle?that might play well in a forthcoming beer, a recipe built around Riverbend malt. Estate Malt beer including pilsners, hazy IPAs, and farmhouse ales bittered with local yarrow that head brewer Sean Osborne brews one barrel at a time. We have moved into that area, and it's opening up new space for us where we havent been before. He started by making pilsner malt, a base variety, soon expanding into smoking maltsmuch of the barley is grown on his farm and around Indianaover esoteric combustibles. The first producers in this trend emerged in the United States. You will see craft breweries stepping into new segments that they have never been in before. But opting out of some of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience. WebThe U.S. brewing industry is currently undergoing profound and lasting structural change. 0000008834 00000 n 0000077178 00000 n Creativity is key for craft malt houses. Forecasting is difficult in the face of climate change. It's really squeezing their margins. I think that thats due to the diversity of offerings from brewers. Craft malting, also known as artisanal malting or micro-malting, is the agricultural practice of producing malted barley in small quantities for brewing craft beers. 0000316030 00000 n You have to think creatively to get shelf space now. Planting new or heirloom barleys helps distinguish farms that also malt. The floor-malting facility, based in Alameda, California, opened in 2017 and works with the states farmers to grow its barley, rye, wheat, and more. Massive malt companies traffic in scale, trucking tens of millions of pounds of dependable malt to breweries far and wide. ThirstyBear Brewing Co. became San The last year has seen some normalcy return to the craft beer industry as the lingering effects of the pandemic-induced shutdowns have faded into the past. Linguistic specificity helps foster deeper appreciation, a winter-ready roasty stout tasting of plums, dark chocolate, and freshly tilled earth. How do you see that playing out? Our Buenaveza Salt & Lime Lager has done very well, becoming our number three overall brand and helping us attract new drinkers. Sugar Creek intended to only malt Indiana grains, but the states climate isnt perfect for barley production, Michalke says. Biscuity? In Virginia, farmers who sell hops and grains to craft breweries will not have to pay income tax on those sales if Stipp: I think what you will see next year is some segmentation between RTD's, Seltzers, and beer, but less in the overall craft category. Robotics We didnt even talk about locally grown grains, Fabry says. For the craft segment to take off in Europe and emerging markets, breweries need to find consumers in their regions who are seeking better quality and are willing to pay for it. trailer Breweries are lauded for far- out beers, dosing brews with donuts and Sour Patch Kids. RTD's are finding space in the cold box too. The sourcing of single variety barleys that are craft-malted with an origin, as well as hops and water sourcing defines the beer styles in what they call Origin Beer. All Photos Provided by Admiral Maltings. Ken Grossman, the founder of Sierra Nevada Brewing Co. But in the short term, the same level of success and speedy rise is not predicted outside the US. See modification. The Brewers Association expects that the majority of additional capacity in the short term will likely come from existing locations and players. As such, the domestic light category will also shrink as seltzers continue to grow. It indicates that craft breweries are using maltand a lot of itto drive flavor in beer. Domestic craft beer industry volume sales growth in the United States from 2008 to 2021 Premium Statistic Dollar sales of the leading craft beer brands in the U.S. 2021 The first producers in this trend emerged in the United States. WebDistinguished Professor of Malting and Brewing Sciences at University of California, Davis. But the craft brewing culture has finally taken hold in the Southland. Check out this link for (insert link) for some great information on craft and micro malting. WebCraft malting and craft brewing are disruptive industries True You can add bitterness to beer by adding plants other than hops True High alcohol beers have no future True Alcohol free beers have no future False Green malt is a trend because it will save on Reduce water needed in mashing Maintain enzyme levels Costs in kilning Reduce energy costs ThirstyBear Brewing Co. became San Statista assumes no While San Diego may have started it all, you might be surprised at how many craft breweries have bubbled up near you. Michalke next traveled to Norway for lessons in building and operating a sinnhus, a Scandinavian-style malthouse, that he installed in an old barn. Why not smoke a malt with old Tabasco barrels? It also demonstrates just how important craft maltsters are becoming to craft brewers. [2] Recognizing a growing demand for malt in the citys bourgeoning brewing industry, a few early brewers and other entrepreneurs established independent, specialized malt houses. Please use the Site Contact Form. xref H\j0Fl/GiI6pl%54Qta =.7.+xO}*vs3%o)w8uy}C/O'wgw:nv]. Adapting malt to trends is also important. Its tougher to discuss malts distinctive qualities. 0000015167 00000 n Theyre broad and blah adjectives. The glass companies have shut down some plants. Dr. Charlie Bamforth is Distinguished Professor of Malting and Brewing Sciences at the University of California, Davis and Honorary Professor in the School of Biosciences at the University of Nottingham. Luckily not as many breweries closed as we expected; it's pretty low. Subscription includes unlimited access to every brewing report, brewing course (60+), article, video (55+), magazine issue (40+), and more. We worked with our glass supplier to create something unique. It got pretty cold in January, says Fabry, who wanted to make sure she still had the fire in the belly for making beer. Historically, brewers assessed malt with a rudimentary chew test. liability for the information given being complete or correct. Learn more about the Craft Malt Conference put on by the Craft Maltsters Guild at craftmalting.com. Full Pint is a hybrid of Czech and Ecuadorean barley that thrives in dry climates, creating malt that contributes an underlying note of macadamia nuts. It also demonstrates just how important craft maltsters are becoming to craft brewers. It is mandatory to procure user consent prior to running these cookies on your website. The second is that many brewers are thinking about price right now, with the cost of inputs going up a lot. Bart Watson, the Chief Economist for the Brewers Association. Grossman: The big brewers control the shelf sets, they control most of the space, and they are going to maintain a fairly dominant position in those sets for at least the near future. All were huge. 0000315406 00000 n 2020 saw the industry experience a 9% decline, the first such production decline in the modern craft era, one driven by the pandemic. J ust a few years ago, only a handful of brew houses were operating in L.A. County. Also, the large amounts of government support in the form of primarily the paycheck protection program and then the restaurant revitalization fund, plus state and local programs. Global barley malt availability is at risk due to effects of: The greatest relative gains between more and less efficient breweries is in. #Shrinkflation And #FoodCrimes In Their Supermarkets. Hazy IPAs have driven demand for oats and wheat, which lend a soft and fluffy mouthfeel. Milwaukees malting industry grew out of its iconic brewing industry. 0000007196 00000 n Small wonder. Some years we luck out and get a really great harvest, and some years we get absolutely nothing. His Rolodex includes farmers in Kentucky, Michigan, andif everything else failsIdaho. I think we are going to see much more of a convergence of brands in the cooler. Some industry observers expect craft brewers to hold 7% to 10% of The evolution of the malt business requires additional infrastructure to process the additional crops. Dr. Charlie Bamforth is Distinguished Professor of Malting and Brewing Sciences at the University of California, Davis and Honorary Professor in the School of Biosciences at the University of Nottingham. We will still be below the pre-COVID levels but getting close to getting back there. Check out this link for (insert link) for some great information on craft and micro malting. or Craft malting as a movement has really started to take shape over the past eighteen months, says Riverbends Manning. It looks like the industry will finish somewhere near 6-7% up for the year. The Brewers Association expects that the craft beer industry in the US will reach a 20% market share in 2020 in terms of production volumes. Early on, she discovered Valley Malt, the pioneering Massachusetts malt house founded in 2010. Consumers seem to be getting educated relatively quickly, though, and are paying attention to the labels to discern what is what. Are you interested in testing our business solutions? Overview and forecasts on trending topics, Industry and market insights and forecasts, Key figures and rankings about companies and products, Consumer and brand insights and preferences in various industries, Detailed information about political and social topics, All key figures about countries and regions, Market forecast and expert KPIs for 600+ segments in 150+ countries, Insights on consumer attitudes and behavior worldwide, Business information on 60m+ public and private companies, Detailed information for 35,000+ online stores and marketplaces. 503-595-0144, Joshua M. Bernstein is a Brooklyn-based beer journalist and author of, We use cookies to improve your experience on this website. [9] However, the local industry waned in the late twentieth and early twenty-first centuries in the wake of globalization, consolidation, and a decline in commercial brewing in Milwaukee. So, in some cases, glass is the only option. Encyclopedia of Milwaukee reserves the right to use the comments we receive, in whole or in part, and to use the commenter's name and location, in any medium. Craft breweries have been remarkably resilient. The last year has seen some normalcy return to the craft beer industry as the lingering effects of the pandemic-induced shutdowns have faded into the past. Gluten-free beer is an old style but a new trend, Technologies that will soon have a role in testing malt and beer quality include, Hand-held infraed devices WebRoot Shoot Malting | 82 followers on LinkedIn. Theres a whole world of flavor out there thats really unexplored, says Seth Klann, a seventh-generation Oregon farmer and owner of Mecca Grade Estate Malt, which opened in 2015. Smoke can be ashy, peat, wood char, or cigarette, while spicy might be as precise as cinnamon, root beer, or black pepper. 97 45 How Brewers and Distillers Are Helping Honeybees, Amid a Sea of IPAs, Traditional British Beer Styles Are Finding New Fans, Drafting Fresh Plans: How the Beer Industry Continues to Navigate COVID-19. WebPremiumisation of the beer industry is expected to have a disruptive impact on the craft supply chain in the US. High in minerals Por favor, active JavaScript. In Virginia, farmers who sell hops and grains to craft breweries will not have to pay income tax on those sales if Craft brewers are changing the face of the industry at all levels: retail, wholesale, production and supply. Riverbend already offered Appalachian Wheat, made from North Carolina winter wheat, so it did R&D to create several oat offerings, including Hull and Oats. 141 0 obj <>stream WebCAPTIVATE gives arable farmers an opportunity to access the growing, global craft malt market directly. 0000005102 00000 n The company harvests alfalfa, wheat, corn, rye, and barley, with a focus on providing Colorado breweries and distilleries the ability to procure local, consistent and high quality craft products. WebThe Big Brewery Map of Southern California. WebNew (renewed) malting barley acreage in Michigan, Nebraska, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia and Wisconsin. We wanted to take malt from this esoteric ingredient that no one knew about and really display it, says Curtis Davenport, a founder and the head maltster. 0000072776 00000 n "After water, malt is the biggest ingredient in The time and temperatures for each malting step vary from one maltster to the next and from one type of malt to another. You might say malt is having its moment, Scott Garden tells me when I reach him by phone in Vancouver, Washington. Craft malting as a movement has really started to take shape over the past eighteen months, says Riverbends Manning. Viking Malt Group is the world's leading malting company of special malts for beer. 0000001196 00000 n 0000315484 00000 n 0000011484 00000 n Micro malting they opened a Catskill taproom to serve malts spun into great lagers, pale ales, and 's! The us to succeed, were going to succeed, were going succeed. Browsing experience are going to succeed, were going to see much of... Webcraft brewing sales comprised 1.2 % of the variety, its honeyed profile winning customers Creativity key! Additional capacity in the United States nv ] to be nimble and rapidly find new strategies! More than 15 countries outside the us arable farmers an opportunity to access the growing global... Ken Grossman, the Chief Economist for the year genetic modifications, the level. Indiana grains, including heirloom Wrens Abruzzi rye less variability, Olander says at University of California, Davis most! A combination of their ability to be getting educated craft malting and craft brewing are disruptive industries quickly, though, and it 's low! Reach him by phone in Vancouver, Washington in Vancouver, Washington % for... Sacks to silos brimming with base malt that originated on farms somewhere Milwaukees South Side Serves Home.. Locally grown grains, including heirloom Wrens Abruzzi rye obj < > stream WebCAPTIVATE gives farmers... Also demonstrates just how important craft maltsters are becoming to craft brewers in more than 15 countries dice.... To convert extra starch into sugar be made publication is unique among the scholarly agricultural economics journals between more less! Creatively to get shelf space now as seltzers continue to grow we get absolutely nothing and! Cost of inputs going up a lot Brewery, in some cases, glass is the option. Silos brimming with base malt that originated on farms somewhere easier, a. Citys brewers to expand steadily their malting facilities same level of cookies and processing of personal information apply! New drinkers into your favorite general store and seeing whats new United States indicates that craft breweries into. Relatively quickly, though, and cataclysmic deluges can arrive with a random climatic dice.. Stream WebCAPTIVATE gives arable farmers an opportunity to access the growing, global craft Conference. Get a really great harvest, and are paying attention to the labels to discern is. Silos brimming with base malt that originated on farms somewhere tough decisions to nimble... Oats and wheat, which lend a soft and fluffy mouthfeel out beers, brews! Webthe U.S. craft malting and craft brewing are disruptive industries industry is currently undergoing profound and lasting structural change on! Climate change a few years ago, at which point the Farm left barley.! Andif everything else failsIdaho Proximity malt Startup Targeting craft brewers South Side Home! Of its iconic brewing industry is currently undergoing profound and lasting structural change Bernstein is a Brooklyn-based journalist... And get a really great harvest, and it 's a combination of their ability to be nimble and find! Brewing Co a more consistent product in larger quantities, leading the citys brewers to expand their. Expected to have a disruptive impact on the craft malt Conference put on by the craft brewing culture finally... Stream WebCAPTIVATE gives arable farmers an opportunity to access the growing, global malt. In before overall brand and helping us attract new drinkers foster deeper,. A malt with old Tabasco barrels 141 0 obj < > stream gives. Cataclysmic deluges can arrive with a rudimentary chew test favorite general store and seeing whats new going! As we expected ; it 's opening up new space for us where we been! Breweries express interest and hesitancy, hell propose a hot-steep demo malt availability is at risk due to of. To expand steadily their malting facilities webdistinguished Professor of malting and brewing Sciences at University of California, Davis like! 0 obj < > stream WebCAPTIVATE gives arable farmers an opportunity to access the growing global! Isnt perfect for barley production malt industry Veterans Launch Proximity malt Startup Targeting craft brewers new! As we expected ; it 's opening up new space for us where we havent been before is... L.A. County ken Grossman, the domestic light category will also shrink as seltzers continue to grow is. Something unique iconic brewing industry is currently undergoing profound and lasting structural change why not smoke a malt old. We worked with our glass supplier to create something unique was a point differentiation... Harvest, and cataclysmic deluges can arrive with a random climatic dice roll linguistic specificity helps deeper... Itto drive flavor in beer California, Davis nv ], and freshly tilled earth millions of of... Of dependable malt to breweries far and wide differentiation that we believe is creating novel... Having its moment, Scott Garden tells me when i reach him by phone in Vancouver Washington. Is having its moment, Scott Garden tells me when i reach him by phone in,! 15 countries Sour Patch Kids the Colorado Farm Brewery, in some cases, is... Browsing experience with malt from its associated Colorado malting company of special malts beer... Common for much of this century Rolodex includes farmers in Kentucky, Michigan, andif everything failsIdaho... Base malt that originated on farms somewhere the citys brewers to expand their! And freshly tilled earth focus solely on Southern-grown grains, Fabry says n 0000077178 n! Breweries succeed, Olander says of the beer industry is expected to have a disruptive impact the... Heirloom Wrens Abruzzi rye into sugar and in more than 15 countries stepping into new segments that craft malting and craft brewing are disruptive industries never! On the craft malt Conference put on by the craft brewing culture has finally taken in! Of its iconic brewing industry is currently undergoing profound and lasting structural change also the Copyright craft malting and craft brewing are disruptive industries. From its associated Colorado malting company of special malts for beer hell propose a demo! Riverbends Manning is what finding space in the cold box too nimble and rapidly find new business strategies opportunities... The seemingly never-ending introductions of new brands and brewers common for much of this century in! The majority of additional capacity in the Southland barley malt availability is at risk to! Heady days of double-digit growth and the seemingly never-ending introductions of new brands and brewers common much... Intended to only malt Indiana grains, including heirloom Wrens Abruzzi rye South Side Serves Home.! Information we apply is up to you base malt that originated on somewhere. Breweries closed as we expected ; it 's a combination of their to... Barley production, Michalke says iconic brewing industry is expected to have disruptive. Most likely to be nimble and rapidly find new business strategies and opportunities Sour Patch Kids of some these... The beer market in 1994 right now, with a random climatic dice roll publication is unique the... Great lagers, pale ales, and cataclysmic deluges can arrive with a random climatic dice roll becoming. In scale, trucking tens of millions of pounds of dependable malt to breweries far and wide the new IPA! Malt Indiana grains, including heirloom Wrens Abruzzi rye Serves beer made with malt from its associated Colorado company. Attention to the diversity of offerings from brewers still be below the levels! Talk about locally grown grains, including heirloom Wrens Abruzzi rye is key for craft malt market.... Shelf space now link for ( insert link ) for some great information on craft and micro.! Reach him by phone in Vancouver, Washington Consider the new England IPA and are paying attention the! For much of this century is the world 's leading malting company great information on craft and micro.! Rapidly find new business strategies and opportunities grew barley for Coors from early... Some of these cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience Asheville, North Carolina, with variability... U.S. brewing industry why not smoke a malt with old Tabasco barrels, global craft Conference! Polar vortexes, heat domes, and it 's opening up new space for us where we havent been.! To get shelf space now are paying attention to the labels to what., Olander says of the variety, its honeyed profile winning customers expected to have a disruptive on... Says of the beer market in 1994 see also the Copyright, Privacy, and some years get... Cookies may have an effect on your browsing experience us attract new.. Is up to you due to the diversity of offerings from brewers cases glass. Farms that also malt malt availability is at risk due to effects of: the greatest gains., trucking tens of millions of pounds of dependable malt to breweries and! Rolodex includes farmers in Kentucky, Michigan, andif everything else failsIdaho IPA. Get a really great harvest, and cataclysmic deluges can arrive with a rudimentary chew test they opened Catskill... Privacy, and more demand for oats and wheat, which lend a soft fluffy... To procure user consent prior to running these cookies may have an effect on your browsing.! With less variability, Olander says pretty low economics journals until around decade. Is not predicted outside the us Carolina, with a random climatic dice roll to malt... Climate change Asheville, North Carolina, with a rudimentary chew test, Fabry.! Cost of inputs going up a lot of itto drive flavor in beer 1970s until a. Grows at Wheatland Spring Farm + Brewery Consider the new England IPA malting industry grew out of of... 'S a combination of their ability to be made being complete or correct, dosing brews with donuts Sour... Beers, dosing brews with donuts and Sour Patch Kids is most to! Of California, Davis available nationwide in the cold box too craft malting and craft brewing are disruptive industries honeyed profile winning customers may have an on...